مصاحبه مکرمه قنبری
http://www.pbs.org/adventuredivas/ir...ri.html#family
mokarrameh ghanbari
village visionary
"I didn't go to school and I am not literate…I only look at a few pages of the Qu'Querns an inspiration, but I can not really read the Qu'Quern I don't lie. I don't think Islam says that drawing shouldn't be done. I don't think there is anything wrong with it."
Farmer and visionary Mokarrameh Ghanbari finally found time to start painting at age 64, and she's been creating ceaselessly ever since. She's painted the gate to her home…and everything beyond… Her vibrant paintings tell stories, local folk legends and religious tales from Islam and Christianity, and have caught the eyes of neighbors and documentary film crews alike, inspiring pilgrimages to her remote village amidst the rice paddies.
Click below to read what she told Holly about
:
(The following transcript was translated from Farsi.)
Holly: Please tell us about your work.
MG: I haven't painted a lot recently. I was hospitalized and sick in bed for 20 days.
Holly: You have done some very beautiful work.
MG: I get very tired…I don't have any power left in my arms anymore. It's good if you can paint in this position. I paint like children, I lie on the floor like this.
Holly: Is this where you paint, in here?
MG: Yes, like this.
Holly: There's not a lot of room in here, it must be very difficult.
MG: I sometimes get tired and accidentally spill the paints on the floor and get it in my hair and that is another problem I have with working on the floor. Painting is easier for younger people like you. We have so much work to do, like slaves! But [painting] is work also…when you start something like this you should expect these kind of things to happen [alluding to visits from film crews…Mokarrameh was the subject of a documentary film directed by Ebrahim Mokhtari entitled Mokarrameh, Memories & Dreams]. I regret telling Mr. Mokhtari that I was a farmer, now the cameramen won't leave me alone. No, I'm just joking…No, I said to Mr. Mokhtari: (recites poem) 'I regret saying I was a gardener, now the hunters won't leave me alone,' but in my case it is the cameramen who won't leave me alone!
Holly: When did you work with Mr. Mokhtari?
MG: Around two years ago. He filmed everything on my farm, the rice fields, the wet and dry cultivation areas, the cotton field…everything.
Holly: Why do you think filmmakers are interested in interviewing you?
MG: Well, mostly because I started painting at an old age and that interests them. But I am not really a painter. I'm 70 years old I started painting at 64. There are a lot of people who paint much better than me, but it is my painting at an old age that is interesting to them.
Holly: Why did you start painting?
MG: Painting isn't all I have done. I was a seamstress when I was ten years old. I did everything by hand because we couldn't afford to buy even a ten Toman sewing machine, but after a while the style of clothes changed and everyone started wearing ready-made clothes. I put sewing aside and then I began hairdressing. I did hairdressing for fifteen years. I did the makeup for the local brides for fifteen years. After my only brother died in an accident, I didn't make up any brides anymore because I felt it wasn't right. And I became a midwife for twelve years or so. I delivered a lot of children, at least 25 children, but my own children were growing up and they were complaining that they were not eating the same rice I used to cook anymore [a Farsi expression meaning not getting enough attention from her] so I put that aside too.
Holly: How many years were you a midwife?
MG: Ten or twelve years. I did a lot of other things after that. I was a healer and fixed a lot of bones and limbs. [In Iran there are traditional practices of setting broken bones and fixing sprained joints and muscles learned by experience; there are certain people in villages believed to have a unique touch or healing power in their hands]. I also handwove trouser belts, did embroidery work…I made brick stoves and ovens and handmade mattresses up to 20 meters.
Holly: And how did you start painting?
MG: After my husband died and my children received their inheritance, I bought a cow and started taking care of it. So by the time my son got accepted at the University of Isfahan and left, we had a lot of cows to take care of, which was a lot of work and exhausted me and I fell sick and they had to take me to Tehran for hospitalization and treatment…and while I was sick in bed the children went back and sold the cow because they were concerned about my health, and they set fire to the haystacks the cows fed on and that hurt me a lot, so I started painting on small things when I felt lonely to help me cope with it. Once when my son came to visit from Isfahan he brought two small pieces of stone, one white and one blue. I painted the stones like duck's heads and put them on their plates and they thought they were real and when they picked them up and felt the weight, they realized they were fooled!
Holly: Does painting make you happy?
MG: Yes it does. So Mr. Nasrollahi bought me a small notebook — or did you buy me [to her son] — I can't remember!
Mokarrameh's Son: When I saw her doing painting I wanted to buy her paper and paint, but she said, 'Just get me some used paper.' So I bought her 50 sheets of A4 paper, and after one month, when I came back I saw that she had drawn and painted on both sides of them, so I bought her 100 sheets this time and after some time she had covered both sides of those too, the third time I came back she had ran out of paint and had made some natural paint herself out of herbs and plants, and that is how this all began…
Holly: Have you met any resistance?
MG: My children never disapproved, but at first my neighbors would complain and say 'how could you do this while your neighbor is sick and sad,' so I had to hide everything, and for four years I would only paint at night, and if I had an unexpected visitor I would hide everything very quickly and if they saw the paint on my hands I would pretend it was nothing and hide my hands!
Holly: Why? What was wrong with that?
MG: Well, over here it was not customary to deal with paper and pencil and painting. There weren't any teachers either, so nobody learned or appreciated it.
Holly: Is it considered it a bad thing?
MG: Well, now it is different.
Holly: Is it only bad for women?
MG: Their mentality was that a farmer should have nothing to do with paper, because it is just a waste of them and nothing would come out of it. Now it is different, I can leave the doors open and paint in freedom and nobody considers it strange anymore.
Holly: Why do you choose these subjects and stories for your drawings ?
MG: My husband was a very good storyteller, and farmers would gather in the evening and he would entertain them with his stories which he knew very well and that is where I learned all these stories like Rostam & Sohrab, Raana & Najmeh, Leila & Majnoon, Moses, Jesus. That is why I use them in my work. No trees or landscapes, all stories!
Holly: What other themes or stories are there?
MG: Well, there is the Holy Ali…
Holly: What about your own life?
MG: There are a lot of stories of the hardships in my life. God would give us a child every year, my husband was old and he couldn't work too much because he had respiratory problems so I had to do most of the work. I've seen practically every kind of hardship by now. But there has never been any money in my art, just love!
Holly: But how do you show these hardships in your paintings? Are these stories shown in your paintings? Raising children?
MG: No, I talked a lot about all my hardships, so why should I use them in my paintings to show them?
Holly: Have you used Christian stories in your work?
MG: Yes, I have stories form Jesus, the Virgin Mary, Moses, Abraham, Noah — both from the Qu'ran and from old stories…it was at night when I drew one and [my son] came and asked me, 'mother what is that you've drawn.' I said, 'Well it's Adam and Eve.' He said, 'Why did you draw them *****?' And I said, 'What is wrong with that?' Then he asked, 'Would you have drawn your family *****?' Then I said, 'Well, when God created us we were all *****,' and I had something to cover it. He didn't talk to me for ten days. On the other hand, because I was very angry at my son I painted two other ***** Adam and Eve paintings. But he is OK with it now…
…Amir and Ghohar (two Iranian legends) were in love and they go to this place to be alone together…I once told this story from one of my paintings and the next day they played it on the radio and I felt embarrassed.
Holly: Why do you choose such unusual topics to paint?
MG: Everybody compliments them and says they are good. I mean in most places except the west. They say that the paintings are very real and alive. For example Moses over there with his cane, or Noah and his ark, or farming and things like that, no! Everybody likes them.
Holly: What would happen if you couldn't paint anymore?
MG: It is hard. If God gives you a pain, he will also give you a medicine for it (an Iranian expression meaning everything happens for a reason). I have had many hard times in life but they have all passed by and my kids are all grown up now. It is very hard so if something happened so that I wouldn't be able to paint I will be patient with it.
Holly: Do you have any fears?
MG: Well, no. I have had some people and guests coming from other cities and they asked me 'don't you get scared at night with all of these strange paintings around you?' And I said 'No.' They said, 'you're lying' and I said 'No, I swear.' God created humans…is he scared of his people? And I have created these paintings and I am not afraid of them.
Holly: Isn't it a problem to paint images in Islam?
MG: It is not clear. I didn't go to school and I am not literate. So, I do not know enough, and I only look at a few pages of the Qu'ran as an inspiration, but I can not really read the Qu'ran. I don't lie. I don't think Islam says that drawing shouldn't be done. I don't think there is anything wrong with it.
Holly: Your life has been so difficult, why do you think your paintings are so bright?
MG: Because before I had to make my paints from the skins of fruits: pomegranates, raspberries, leaves…well, I didn't have money to buy paints. But now my paints are western made or some are Korean and maybe that is why the colors have much better quality and are brighter. The paintings could be much brighter but because I sweep the floor with a broom it causes dust and dirt on the paintings. For example I sweep inside and outside and other places and then I will paint again. This is what I do.
Holly: Describe your work around the house.
MG: I always have something to do. In the house I either clean up or paint. I never sit idle and I don't take a nap in the afternoon like other women. There is a field given to me by my father. It is 1,000 meters and I sometimes work in there.
Holly: Can you show me some of your paintings and explain the stories behind them?
MG: This is a mermaid. because people come to watch her, she has covered herself. And also the vase and those are like gold and treasures.
Holly: Are mermaids part of the mythology you've talked about?
MG: No. About 20 years ago I had heard stories about mermaids but this one I drew it from my heart. No.
…This is the old Rostam (a mythological character in Persian). Zal is Rostam's father. Although he was very old he gets married…
…Abraham…This is Abraham. The story of him when they wanted to burn him in fire but God turns the fire into a garden of flowers…
…Noah, this is Noah who plants the seed of a date and it becomes a tree, then he makes an Ark with it. But he leaves his child and his wife behind because they didn't believe in him. And then God sends a big storm, but those in the Ark survive…
…This is the story of Adam and Eve and that is the Satan (or serpent). When they come out they have no clothes on but God teaches them how to cover themselves. The serpent gives them a seed and that causes them to be thrown out of heaven…
…This is Jesus Christ who is nailed to the cross. In those times they didn't believe in him so they crucified him. Jesus… some of the people around him have faith and some don't have faith…
…This is the story of Isaac (Abraham's son). God told Abraham to sacrifice his son. That is the serpent (Satan) telling Abraham to hurry up and Abraham throws stones at him. Just as he is about to kill his son, God sends a lamb to him and tells him to sacrifice the lamb instead of his son…
…This is our family. I drew it when it was the wedding of one of my brother's kids here. There are some animals here, sheep, cows, a rooster — my eyes can't see properly anymore! That part has a small pool and there are crabs and other sea animals in it, and on the left hand side are farm animals and in the middle is the family picnicking underneath the apple tree. (She names them from the right) Mr. Mashti Khan, Mr. Abbas, Mr. Mahmood, Manoochehr, Mr. Jon, Mr. Haj, Mr. Shir, Monir, Farkhondeh, Mashmareh, but she is my havoo [second wife].
Holly: Which one is your havoo?
MG: The one sitting on the bottom. She is really old now, more than 120 years old.
Holly: Are all these your sons?
MG: Yes.
Holly: Is your husband in the painting too?
MG: No. I didn't put my husband in the picture. I didn't want him to be in there. I destroyed it. There is a white line right there. That is where he was but I whitened it out. I didn't want it.
Holly: Why is your havoo in the painting?
MG: We were three havoos…I decided to put her there. I put her there myself because I wanted to. I had two havoos but I really liked my older havoo. The middle one has died…I can't tell you everything now because you're filming. In the old days it wasn't like today, people having boyfriends and **********s. They would marry you and take you off by force, sometimes by beating or whipping you. If anybody liked anybody they had to marry them. Like me, my husband was a Kadkhoda (a powerful leader of a land or village) and his brother was an Arbab (master, feudal lord). He liked me very much but I didn't want to marry and after one whole year they married me by force, because he was a very powerful man.
Holly: Are there any other paintings related to your personal life?
MG: No. I have told so much about my life that I don't see it necessary to draw those things anymore.
Holly: Have you told it through paintings or through words?
MG: [My sons] are writing about my life. They have started from the beginning and have written most parts of it. No, it was so difficult that it is not even necessary to draw it. Raising nine kids is not a joke. My husband was old and sick and had breathing problems so he didn't work much. Today if somebody has one or two kids they complain a lot and cry out, but I raised nine kids without a father.
Holly: What do you do when you wake up in the morning?
MG: I get up and say my Namaz [daily prayers] …and I do some other things and do some painting …have breakfast
Holly: Do you do farm work, too?
MG: We've just finished the farm work. Now we have to do some weeding.
Holly: Would you like to have nothing else to do and just paint?
MG: No, it wouldn't be possible…I have so much to do and I am doing my painting, too. No, I wouldn't want that.